Mary S

oops -- forgot to make the link clickable, so here it is for your convenience: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2015.01100/full

An interesting article by Lilienfeld et al: "Fifty psychological and psychiatric terms to avoid: a list of inaccurate, misleading, misused, ambiguous, and logically confused words and phrases", at https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2015.01100/full

Thanks for the NY Post link. A quote from the second-to-last line of the link really resonates with me: "“He was all about power and greed." My worst therapist seemed to be "all about power and control." That was bad enough, really hard to get past. It seems fair to call her a psychological predator, but Herschkopf is an even greater predator -- financially as well as psychologically.

Thanks for these links. I looked at https://teachpsych.org/page-1784686/6375500 and definitely recommend it.

One of the links on the “monster links list” is to http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/psychological-treatments-that-cause-harm.25417/, which is a discussion of a paper by Scott Lilienfeld. Here is a link to that paper: http://users.ipfw.edu/young/350-Abnormal/assignments/Psych-treatments-that-cause-harm.pdf In the paper, he uses the abbreviation PHT for “Potentially harmful therapy”. On p. 57, he defines how he used this term as follows: “I operationalize treatments as PHTs if they fulfill the following three conjunctive criteria:1. They have demonstrated harmful psychological or physical effects in clients or others (e.g., relatives) 2. The harmful effects are enduring and do not merely reflect a short-term exacerbation of symptoms during treatment 3. The harmful effects have been replicated by independent investigative teams“ On p. 58 he provides his provisional list of PHT's, which I quote here: “Table 1): Provisional List of Potentially Harmful Therapies: Critical incident stress debriefing Scared Straight interventions Facilitated communication Attachment therapies (e.g., rebirthing) Recovered-memory techniques DID oriented therapy Grief counseling for individuals with normal bereavement reactions Expressive-experiential therapies Boot-camp interventions for conduct disorder DARE programs” I am posting this list here, because I think it is important to have the list posted widely so that prospective or current therapy clients can more easily find out that the therapies listed here have been classified as potentially harmful. The term does not mean that they are harmful in all cases -- they may be helpful in some cases, but there is also evidence that they have caused harm. So I see the label PHT as an analog to a “Black Box Warning” for a drug. I would be extremely cautious in using such a drug myself, so I strongly recommend that therapy clients at least think twice before trying a therapy on Lilienfeld’s PHT list. I would not recommend any of these therapies to anyone, and would not try any of them myself.

How ironic that Herschkopf's term "Situationally Acquired Grandiosity" describes him so well.

Just read the new episode. Herschkopf is such a psychopath! He really took advantage of Markowitz's vulnerability to being "led". He has no sense of shame, let alone consideration. Reminds me of the time I told my second worst therapist that I felt ashamed about something. She said she didn't know what I meant by shame. I tried to explain (but how do you explain what an emotion is?!?), and she leaned back, tossed her hands in the air, laughed, and said, "I have no idea what you're talking about!" "Therapy" so often made so little sense; I often couldn't figure out how what the therapists did was supposed to help me. It was bizarre; surreal at times. I'm amazed that I survived with at least some sense left.

I listened to something on NPR's Fresh Air Tuesday that involved two therapists talking about their own kids' problems, and how they realized that they had been treating their kids in ways that were exacerbating the problem rather than part of the solution. Wow, therapists who can admit their mistakes! There may be hope for the profession yet.

The comment about how ethical standards in the 1980's weren't what they are today really hit home -- since I first tried therapy in the 80's. The first two had no informed consent form at all; the third had something that only covered fees, lengths of appointments, and policies on cancelling appointments. I guess it might have been possible to encounter things even worse than I did encounter. It really was caveat emptor back then. (But I can't really say what it's like now, since I haven't tried therapy in a dozen or so years.)

Did you notice the comment from the "creepy" link that said, "He's that "uncle" everyone knows about, but keep quiet."?

They have an urge to make human connections ( https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/a3bxep/joe-biden-isnt-apologizing-for-making-a-human-connection and https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/04/03/ill-more-mindful-biden-addresses-allegations-unwanted-touching/3355536002/) They may acknowledge that their actions may make some people “uncomfortable”, but believe that they are basically doing something good by “reaching out”, so don't consider their actions as creepy or boundary violations.

Welcome, 394Cameron. It sure sounds like you're not getting your money's worth in therapy. From your statement, "My therapist makes the impression that I'm making progress, but that I just don't understand it yet ... " , it sounds (to me, at least) like your therapist is one of those overly optimistic people who always believes that a breakthrough is right around the corner. My view is that if the therapist believes you are making progress, he or she should be able to point to specific examples of how you are making progress. (Unfortunately, there seem to be some therapists who have some kind of magical belief in their intuition or powers.) I hope you have some time to browse around this forum, and that hearing other people's experiences will be helpful to you -- if in no other way than to know that you are not the only one who has had ineffective (or even harmful) therapy. One thing in particular you might want to look at is the "Monster List" of references about poor therapy. And, of course, feel free to describe your therapy experiences if you think that would be helpful to you.

I've done a brief web search to look for places that have cited Emler recently. Here are a couple I came up with: https://www.managers.org.uk/insights/news/2018/january/why-low-self-esteem-could-be-good-for-leadership https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/jun/03/quasi-religious-great-self-esteem-con

Thanks for the link. For anyone interested in more detail: You can also download both the full report (on which the Guardian article is based) and a summary of the findings of the report from https://www.jrf.org.uk/report/self-esteem-costs-and-causes-low-self-worth Also, note that the report and Guardian article are from 2001, 17 plus years ago. So what I wonder is if people have been heeding what the report says.

Wow, they really sound like arrogant perverts.

I don't know if this is directed at me in particular or not. I don't think that I was ever in the situation of "wanting to break the silence when words weren't getting the message across". My experience of words not getting my message across to the therapist was typically that I would say something, and the therapist would say something like, "You mean [something other than what I was trying to say]", or something else that shocked me into silence, and the therapist would then continue with their own agenda.

I think it's that I'm just not into giving glares.

Here's a really distressing story about a very sick sounding therapy that is based on the idea that when kids of a failing marriage prefer to have one parent have custody because the other parent is abusive, it's really the parent whom the kids prefer who has been abusive. https://www.revealnews.org/episodes/bitter-custody/

I once did manage to say something that at least the therapist (my worst) didn't respond to. She had said, "You seem to think this should be an intellectual discussion", with a tone of disdain on the word "intellectual". I responded, "I think it should be in part an intellectual discussion, because I am in part an intellectual person." (My response was really an understatement -- I was in therapy partly to learn to deal better with the stereotype that women aren't capable of being good thinkers; she seemed to share that stereotype, and champion "intuition" or whatever rather than thinking.) I wasn't seethingly silent -- I was shocked-silent. But I'm not into giving death glares.

Hearing Milck's "Quiet" on radio this International Women's Day got me thinking and led to this: QUIET IN THERAPY I told T1 I was quitting. She said, “You expect too much.” I was stunned and quiet. I told T2 I was somewhat shy. She said I gave up my power. I was stunned and quiet. I told T2 that a co-worker’s behavior was inappropriately intimate. She said I had a problem with intimacy. I was stunned and quiet. T2 said that what I needed was “Something like a mold that a brick was made in. When the mold is removed, the brick retains the shape of the mold.” I was stunned and quiet. I told T2 that I was getting worse, not better, in therapy. She said that was because I was facing difficult things in therapy. I was stunned and quiet. Again, I told T2 that I was getting worse, not better. She said, “My client’s pain is precious to me.” I was stunned and quiet. I asked T2 why she said something. She said, “Are you sure you’re not second guessing me?” I was stunned and quiet. Again, I asked T2 why she said something. She said, “Do you realize you are asking me to give up my control? I was stunned and quiet. I told T3 something I though was important for her to consider. She laughed and said, “Oh, you make things so complex!” I was stunned and quiet. I told T3 I was quitting therapy with her. She said, “You’ll never get better if you keep seeking the perfect therapist.” I was stunned and quiet. I told Tn that my life experience was different in many ways from his. He said, “I think you’re harming yourself by focusing on our differences; you need to focus more on our similarities.” I was stunned and quiet.

Welcome, Thistle.

I agree.We are complex beings; various combinations of our genes, our early environment, and our later environment can affect us in various ways.. We can choose to try to improve, but there are still factors "beyond our control" that may limit how much we can change. But there is also the possibility that something like therapy could help us learn the skills we need to improve. Therapy gives the impression that this is what it is all about. And I think that in some cases it does deliver. But in many cases it does not deliver. There are probably some cases where telling the client something like "You can choose to change," can help the client see possibilities or hope that they did not see before. But one size does not fit all. Good therapy is not one-size-fits-all. But that kind of therapy seems rare.

Thanks for this! I haven't looked over the entire list yer, but I heartily recommend the resource "How to Spot Hype in the Field of Psychotherapy: A 19 - Item Checklist", and especially its emphasis on skepticism and humility on the part of the therapist

Something I see as an essential part of the ability to have accurate empathy is the belief that everyone is different, so that a one-size-fits-all approach to empathy is likely to be off the mark more often than not.

Just out of curiosity, I tried looking up some references on empathy in counseling and psychotherapy on the web. This one seemed particularly interesting and thoughtful to me (although I recognize that it might be too nerdy for everyone's taste).