getting ghosted

[Sylvester McMonkey McBean]

thought this was an interesting read about therapist reactions to being 'ghosted' by clients. 

https://psychotherapynetworker.org/blog/details/1243/getting-ghosted-by-clients?utm_source=Silverpop&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=070817_pn_i_rt_WIR_noonthrottled

clearly Ts can be quite sensitive to it when a client does it to them, and i thought in these stories, the Ts seem to handle it in a mature manner. but what about when the tables are turned and a Ts ghosts a client? what is their analysis and reasoning for it then? what is the 'therapeutic opportunity' of a T doing this to a client? 

this seems like another example of 'do as i say, not as i do' in therapy...

[Mary S]

The therapist quotes here seem surprisingly sensitive to the client's needs --- not at all what I encountered in my therapy experience, nor in most of what I read about therapy. Especially encouraging is that most of them seem to realize (although somewhat belatedly -- this is something that they ought to come out of their training with!) that they need to be careful not to push too much. (I think that sometimes what a therapist thinks of as a miniscule nudge comes across to me as really pushy and insensitive to boundaries, informed consent, and all that other good stuff. So maybe the "ghosting" is an example of what I call "being hit over the head with a frying pan,"which, regrettably, a lot of therapists seem to need to wake up and help rather than hinder.)

But, as you say, T's need to also to be sensitive to when they "ghost" a client.

And something that seemed left out of the quotes: A client quite reasonably would choose leaving a message saying they are quitting simply because it seems more rational than taking  the time and expense of going to an appointment  just to deliver a short message.

[Sylvester McMonkey McBean]

3 hours ago, Mary S said:

The therapist quotes here seem surprisingly sensitive to the client's needs --- not at all what I encountered in my therapy experience, nor in most of what I read about therapy.

not always what i experience either, but did expect at times because my ex-T was suppose to be the 'wiser and more mature' of the two of us in the relationship....or so i naively thought. 

this is why i almost wonder if these vignettes are even true stories in the first place and do have my suspicions...  

[Mary S]

6 hours ago, Sylvester McMonkey McBean said:

this is why i almost wonder if these vignettes are even true stories in the first place and do have my suspicions...  

Yes, this crept into my mind later, as did the thought that the therapists really were unreasonably pushy. (I do have this tendency often to focus on the positive at first, then later start thinking, "Wait a minute. I think I was giving that person too much benefit of the doubt."

[Eve B]

I think therapists know how they would like to ideally act during a sensitive session, but when it actually happens, they more commonly tend to react instead, and the therapy gets messed up. 

[Mary S]

On 07/17/2017 at 8:46 PM, Eve B said:

I think therapists know how they would like to ideally act during a sensitive session, but when it actually happens, they more commonly tend to react instead, and the therapy gets messed up. 

I'm not convinced that they necessarily know how they would like to act during a sensitive session. I'm also not convinced that they necessarily have good ideas of how to act during a sensitive session. For example, the one who said, "Consider me to be something like a computer: what you say goes in, mixes around with my training and experience, and out comes a response," sure sounded like she was saying that what she routinely did was just reacting.

[Eve B]

Is therapist ghosting of a client the same as abandonment?  If clients 'abandon' their therapists though, that would basically be the same as firing them, right?

[Mary S]

3 hours ago, Eve B said:

Is therapist ghosting of a client the same as abandonment?  If clients 'abandon' their therapists though, that would basically be the same as firing them, right?

I think therapist ghosting of a client could be abandonment, could be negligence, -- or, if a therapist has a contract that explicitly restricts certain kinds of contact with the client, it would be just following the terms of the contract.

[Eve B]

http://cornerstonefamilyservices.org/4-reasons-not-to-ghost-your-therapist/

What do you guys think about these 4 reasons not to ghost a therapist?

[Sylvester McMonkey McBean]

4 hours ago, Eve B said:

http://cornerstonefamilyservices.org/4-reasons-not-to-ghost-your-therapist/

What do you guys think about these 4 reasons not to ghost a therapist?

seems like the way this has been presented that a lot of emphasis is put onto the client for the therapist to have a meaningful ending. why should it be the clients job to make sure that the therapist has a good ending?  this to me seems more about 'taking care of the T' instead of looking after my own needs. i know when i ended therapy, i didn't just up and leave my T or ghost him, because there were things i wanted to say and try to resolve before ending..i didn't do it to help my Ts current and future clients or to protect his feelings. it was out of pure selfishness for me, as a paying client, and what i wanted out of therapy before i left. 

and in this statement, just rearrange the words, 'therapist' to 'client' and vice versa and it has almost the exact same relevance:

  I need to add one last piece, as a therapist: It’s hard when a client ghosts, not just for the lost business or the unanswered phone calls. Those sting, but only temporarily. It’s the unanswered questions that hurt most: “Why did you leave?” “What was going on that I didn’t know about?” And the iconic, “Was it something I said?” I come to care about my clients, even after just a session or two, and a disappearance makes an impact. 

i would just hope, and even expect, because of their training and professional status that the T would be the mature one in the situation and not  resort to ever ghosting a client, but as evident in many of the stories on the online forums from hurt clients, this doe not always seem to be the case.  

[here today]

I didn't ghost.  I confronted.  As best, and as cooperatively as I could.  And my therapist(s) couldn't handle it.

So the following is, frankly, still triggering for me:

Quote

 

I need to add one last piece, as a therapist: It’s hard when a client ghosts, not just for the lost business or the unanswered phone calls. Those sting, but only temporarily. It’s the unanswered questions that hurt most: “Why did you leave?” “What was going on that I didn’t know about?” And the iconic, “Was it something I said?” I come to care about my clients, even after just a session or two, and a disappearance makes an impact.

Why? We spend a lot of time in our training learning to help clients feel safe and comfortable, to help them say whatever they want. Ghosting tells us that something was wrong with our rapport. Even though it seemed like the relationship was functional, something else was going on underneath. Either there was no secure connection or the client didn’t feel safe enough to talk about their insecurities. That’s a problem we’d like to correct—but without contact we’ll never know. It’s like someone telling a surgeon: “Sorry, the heart transplant failed and we lost the patient. The body is gone now, though, so we’ll never know what happened. By the way, you have three more scheduled for this afternoon.”

What happened? What went wrong? How can I improve?

 

I tried to tell you.  I felt that was the "better way".  It hurt your feelings and you shamed me.  Your training was insufficient, no matter how much time you spent in it.

If a client wants to avoid that, I can certainly understand, and SO SHOULD YOU.

Perhaps, if you're really interested and want to take responsibility for meeting your own needs, you could sent them a questionnaire requesting customer feedback?

[Mary S]

Quote

1. You can say anything in therapy, and that’s for your benefit.

In other areas of your life, it may be impolite to say “This isn’t working for me anymore; I’m thinking about leaving.” But in therapy, talking about the relationship is one of the central components of the work. You can say things in therapy you might feel reluctant to in other relationships, because therapy is supposed to be a safe place where all topics are fair game. Therapists are trained to hear such statements non-defensively, but even if their response is pathetic, it’s still good for you to say it. You’re just being honest, talking about how you really feel. So why not take that approach for a spin?

This sounds like total BS, like the therapist is off in their fairy tale world, confusing their fairy tale of what therapy is with the real world the client lives in. In the real world, therapy is not a safe place -- or maybe just a "safe place" in some weird therapist interpretation. Maybe therapists are trained to hear "such statements" non-defensively, but in real life they often react defensively (in my experience) or dismissively. I guess you could say I've ghosted some therapists -- initially after trying and trying to talk about the problems, with no sign that the therapist seriously considered my concerns. So at some point, it makes sense not to waste the time, energy, and expense of trying to discuss with one more therapist when they don't show any signs of being willing to listen.

I should add: I did find one therapist who did seem willing to listen and try to take my perspective into account. I did appreciate his willingness. But he didn't really seem able to help me beyond being willing to listen. I finally said to him (in person; no ghosting on this one), "You're a nice guy and I like you, but I just don't see what you have to give."

[Mary S]

Quote

2. We don’t have enough good endings in life.

Think about most endings—divorce, death, breakups, moving, fights, firing, etc. These are neither pleasant experiences nor memories. It is possible to have good endings, though. They happen all the time—graduations, for example. A journey ends with a celebration of accomplishments. Bittersweet goodbyes ensue, then brunch at the Olive Garden. That’s a decent ending. Why not model therapy’s ending on a graduation instead of a divorce?

This person really is off in a fairy tale world. Ending of bad therapy is not at all like a graduation; it's like a divorce.

[Eve B]

This would be my response to "you"/"your"/"you're"=the therapist:

1. You can say anything in therapy, and that’s for your benefit. ~~No, I couldn't just say anything in therapy because of your defensive reactions to my honest criticisms, and I wouldn't consider that sort of unpleasant experience as something for my benefit. 

2. We don’t have enough good endings in life.  ~~What I wanted was a meaningful and helpful ending not a 'good' and useless, waste-of-my-money ending.

3. What are you avoiding? ~~ An inadequate and ineffective therapist.

4. Think of the therapist’s future clients. ~~ There are only 2 people in the session room, and this therapy (my paid time) is supposed to be about me and my issues not your wants or your other clients so I shouldn't be made to feel obligated to be helping you benefit and become a better therapist for other people. How is it fair or right that you should be gaining more from my loss?

[disequilibrium1]

My co-therapists went freaking berserk, destructive and manipulative as I tried to terminate group therapy. When I filed a complaint years later,  I saw one of the therapists learned nothing in the interim. I get annoyed with those shaming articles about the correct protocol for terminating therapist. I wouldn't advise anyone to face an wounded therapist. Most of those "advice" articles fails to comprehend the poisonous relationships and power struggles.

[Sylvester McMonkey McBean]

16 hours ago, Mary S said:

This sounds like total BS, like the therapist is off in their fairy tale world, confusing their fairy tale of what therapy is with the real world the client lives in. In the real world, therapy is not a safe place -- or maybe just a "safe place" in some weird therapist interpretation. Maybe therapists are trained to hear "such statements" non-defensively, but in real life they often react defensively (in my experience) or dismissively.

agreed...i also had a tough time swallowing that tripe in point #1 about being able to say anything in therapy.  i followed that advice on many occasions, and was often met with a defensive and wounded T.  so no, therapy definitly is not  that safe place where all topics are fair game and perhaps my T missed that day in training where they are suppose to hear statements non-defensively.  

[Sylvester McMonkey McBean]

15 hours ago, Eve B said:

This would be my response to "you"/"your"/"you're"=the therapist:

1. You can say anything in therapy, and that’s for your benefit. ~~No, I couldn't just say anything in therapy because of your defensive reactions to my honest criticisms, and I wouldn't consider that sort of unpleasant experience as something for my benefit. 

2. We don’t have enough good endings in life.  ~~What I wanted was a meaningful and helpful ending not a 'good' and useless, waste-of-my-money ending.

3. What are you avoiding? ~~ An inadequate and ineffective therapist.

4. Think of the therapist’s future clients. ~~ There are only 2 people in the session room, and this therapy (my paid time) is supposed to be about me and my issues not your wants or your other clients so I shouldn't be made to feel obligated to be helping you benefit and become a better therapist for other people. How is it fair or right that you should be gaining more from my loss?

ha!  love this! 

[Sylvester McMonkey McBean]

6 hours ago, RealityCheque said:

Of course, the ending therapists inevitably recommend is the one that costs the client the most money. "Hey, don't ghost me! Make this a process! Cut down over time (so that I have time to fill your slots)! At least come in for one last session!  (I've got my plane ticket to the Bahamas to pay off.)

yeah, this was my ex-T...he clearly wanted to make it a process...a long and drawn out one that i felt was more about him and his needs than me.  

the day i told him i was officially ready to terminate (we had already been addressing things and going through the termination process for many sessions prior) and that this would be my last session, he stated he was 'shocked'.  he felt there was so much more to address (i'm sure there was from his side ).  so i told him that i was happy to come back to discuss anything further that he felt he wanted or we needed to discuss, but that i would no longer be paying for the session time...it was going to be on his dime.  obviously, he didn't seem to keen to my idea.  so in the end, i reckon that those 'things' that he felt i still needed to address were not that important to him after all.    

[Eve B]

Maybe we oughta find that author's blog and write our rebuttals in his comments section? 

[Mary S]

8 hours ago, RealityCheque said:

I was just going to add, the only time they don't encourage drawing the therapy termination process out as long as humanly possible is when they no longer enjoy the client. So again, all about the therapist. It's either "keep paying me until I can find someone else to fill your spot" or "get out of here, I can't stand you anymore". Neither one of those are therapeutic, but they're the cold hard realities behind most of those proceedings. 

Regarding not enjoying the client: I never had a therapist I tried saying he no longer enjoyed the client, but two instances of something similar:

1. The  therapist I mentioned earlier (that another therapist had suggested), who said over the phone that he would not care to work with me, because he would not enjoy "being with" me.

2. The last therapist I tried (ten or so years ago) said he thought I was harming myself by focusing so much on how he and I were different; that I should focus more on the similarities. (Sure sounds like "all about the therapist.") He also said once, in a voice that sounded plaintive, that what kept him going as  a therapist was the same thing that kept him going as a teacher (he also taught part time at a nearby university): When the client or student "gets it". I assumed he was implying that he didn't get that "positive reinforcement" from me.  That helped convince me to quit. (Again, sure sounds like "all about the therapist".)

[Mary S]

7 hours ago, Eve B said:

Maybe we oughta find that author's blog and write our rebuttals in his comments section? 

The blog does not seem to have a comments section. The organization that sponsors the website that the blog is on describes itself as a faith-based, Christian counseling organization.