Happynow

Often an abuser has been abused themselves and it maybe hard for them to think this is wrong.

A victim may also think their abuser is right and they are wrong which isn't true, but this false belief needs to be examined before healing is possible.

On 1/16/2024 at 8:13 AM, NoTea said:

I don't mean to sound sympathetic in a weird way, i just see their abuse seeming mischaracterized, like called perfectly voluntary, given the f-yous of therapy commands, condescended to, not helped usually and in most cases.

 

I'm confused how to say the gentleness and strength of it, with responsibility and blame for example.

 

Maybe my economic limitedness is forcing me to think in this area, but it's not stockholm syndromic sympathy.

 

Is it?, if i see they're in pain or can generalize that denial and attacking and not making sense and not being constructive, is painful?

 

Not being constructive while not being abusive is to me, and when i did smaller versions of abusers, like snapping at people or trying to do 'comebacks', the pain was from the worst.

 

I don't know how to distinguish those abuses either, but the point seems about constructive relationships, which seemed possible by learning and apologies, and a better not pop psy word for boundaries, like respect? (Or, uh, that word gets abused too, like when people say Rodney dangerfield's line without good humor.)

 

So, uh, hm, does this make sense?

 

I thought alot more clarity was needed about explaining, and idk, is help possible for the pain abusers feel? I haven't seen reliable unabused methods, so idk.

 

In my case i thought of the bad i saw, then thought if i did it, and found ways to see how i related. Idk how better that made me, but it seems to go a long way. Getting bullied seemed to too, but that's not suggestable or ok on purpose?

 

Or is it?, if it's the only way to feel some things? I didn't consider if it was ok til now, i objected like 'wouldn't wish on anyone', and particular results aren't guaranteed,

 

but with the stakes of saving lives for the dependent people, is for example going to stay in homeless shelters, ethical? In some areas where there aren't waitlists, so a spot wouldn't be taken?

Being on the receiving end of abuse may not always be clear in the mind of a victim. Especially if the victim has suffered long term damage, has compassion for the abuser or has suffered neglect as a child.

To try and understand an abuser could be a way of controlling the abuse, stopping it and to achieve a result where everyone is happy.

In theory this would sound ok but this would be difficult to achieve if the victim has suffered psychological damage for a long period. 

A desire to help may also stem from a fear of personal harm if the abuser is punished leading to revenge toward the victim.

Original childhood neglect may be the motivation for the victim to concentrate on helping the abuser instead of helping himself.

On 1/16/2024 at 7:47 AM, NoTea said:

What can abusers do if therapists and resources are collaborating with their abuse and do abuse?

 

The starting point that therapists require or are comfortable with, is dismissive of how abusers are being. When abuse is persistent because rarely conscious, there can seem not much therapy left for abusers who admitted everything and who can stay aware long enough, without too much pain, to talk about it and go to sessions?

 

What's realistic? Nothing as long as most of society, or the groups/pros associated with society, are staying indoctrinatory or affirming cruelty is ok?

 

Separating from abusers isn't realistic for victims who are  dependents because disabilities, and who shelters don't treat better or for long. 

 

This kind of post seemed response inactive on the subreddit, i wondered what kinds of posts are better or similar  here?

I don't know what percentage of abusers go to therapy for help. I guess it's a big step to come to the conclusion what they are doing is wrong and an even bigger step to have the courage to seek help. Just like every client there are risks, but a professional therapist should be unbiased, non judgemental and certainly not abusive. However we know from these boards that this doesn't always happen.

I would imagine victims of abuse are more likely to seek help, but solving the problem would be difficult if they are dependant on the abusers.

In a case like this the local authorities would need to get involved.

19 hours ago, PsychoLogical said:

Exactly, and I think this in itself provides much comfort and possible healing for many of us than any therapist ever did or could.

I have realised that with many disagreements in life people like to have more numbers on their side to win an argument. This doesn't make them right after all it isnt a democratic situation, but a sharing of different opinions. When there are one to one's and power is shared it is far easier to be assertive and also to reach a compromise. 

Therapy is an illusion that this is a one to one too. With the gentle, listening, empathic therapist sitting opposite us. However it isnt. When there are differing opinions we soon realise that they are not alone, but we are. It is likely we haven't told a single soul we are going to see a therapist either. They have their supervisor, their rules, boundaries and the whole weight of the therapy industry including legal representation if required.

We have nothing.

Forums like this are so important to make us realise we are not alone and that support, certainly for me, has been wonderful in regaining my confidence against the might of the therapy industry.

On 11/29/2023 at 5:23 PM, NoTea said:

Yes. The discussion helps, but feels teasing, like awareness is reached, bad things are comforting explained, and then it's like emotional blue balls maybe. That's a bad metaphor, but i mean help feels almost there, or the closest you can get without getting into the unpredictable weeds of individuals, but then given up on as a therapisty reaction, like it's not possible or tryable, or just somehow another ballgame than some ways of standing up to therapists?

 

Idk, I wonder what more is to it, that isn't of-coursey/yes-but-not-the-barrier. if people understanding therapy culture wrongs seem defensive, who would  help? Everyone being mostly unhelped in the most relieving ways, sounds like a not making sense world

Although we are critical of therapists because of the harm they have caused I think we are all aware of how complex our minds are. Therapists think they know the answers but often they don't, in fact often it's quite the reverse.

With this in mind I think we are cautious of offering specific advice even though posters may be looking for that. We have been damaged and the last thing we would want to do is damage someone else with wrongful advice.

Rather coming here is a meeting place for those with common experiences where we converse on an equal basis with each other.

One thing I have learnt is that deep in our minds we already know the answers and those answers rise to the surface when we talk and others listen. 

This seems to be more natural and free from damage as we are in control and working with our own boundaries. 

Hi Finley, Welcome! Don't worry you won't be criticised here, just post in your own time when you're ready. This place is the opposite to harmful therapy.

On 12/11/2022 at 10:28 PM, Lexie said:

Hello Everyone,

I am so glad I've found this forum! I've been in therapy for MDD and CPTSD for a year and a half, and a major rupture happened three months ago. I left, and then I came back to the same therapist, but the way he treated me changed completely. I still don't know which action was worse for me, leaving or coming back(( I am confused now, and hope you will help me to understand what is happening to me, and if my therapy is helpful or harmful to me.

I will share my story in another post, and for now nice to meet you all!

Thank you,

Lexie

Welcome Lexie it's good here, sometimes a little quiet, but quality is better than quantity.      The one thing that is required in therapy is consistency from the therapist. It needs to be a safe place. That is the therapists responsibility. If he has changed its his responsibility definitely not yours. I'm not surprised you are confused that reaction is completely normal. I've learnt that if a person is irresponsible we walk away we don't spend time thinking about it because that just increases our anxiety. There are plenty more around and if the next one doesn't work we move on to the next and so on. Good luck.

20 hours ago, Mary S said:

Yes, that does seem to be the case -- and my experience is that most of them have life experiences that have very little if any overlap with the life experiences that are most important to me in the therapy context -- e.g., often when I try to talk about something important to me, they change the subject, perhaps by saying, "That's not what I'm interested in," or "Why do you keep bringing that up?". I might as well not be there; the old saying, "My mind is made up, don't confuse me with the facts" seems to describe what they do so often. (And then there are the times when they laugh or give me a scornful look when I bring up something important to me.)

 

To actually not listen is both rude and shows very poor social skills in everyday life yet alone in therapy. I really find that quite incredible. A mind already made up is a very narrow one. I can't see where the therapist can grow as a person so therefore cannot possibly help their clients.

On 6/27/2022 at 11:25 PM, Mary S said:

I looked at this a little more today. One thing that seems spot-on is a post saying that therapists-in-training get "taught to pass the test", rather than taught the so many important things that are not on the test.

Then I'm guessing we are at the mercy of their life experience which is hugely variable.

Welcome RF5. After a while here you will realise you are alright and the therapist needs therapy.

39 minutes ago, Trip said:

Thank you and thank you everyone for your support! It is very very much appreciated!

And yes, I meant appeal to authority in that sense indeed. I understand that they have studied psychology or psychiatry and they know more about it than me (but sadly not always...), but there is no amount of studies that can tell them how I feel better than I do and somehow they still try to explain it to me.

And it's a good idea to write things down. Sometimes they ask me what my symptoms are and I start with the dumbest thing I remember, I lose credibility and then whatever I say after it feels like I can't regain it. And if I insist, they think I am manipulating them, or I am obsessed with something or something like that. But if I start with the strongest example, they will accept or ignore the weaker ones that come after. So I have to work on my rethoric. And it's frustrating because it feels like I am indeed manipulating them into understanding me. They think they are the teachers giving me a lecture about who I am objectively, and yet I am the one who has to step around their biases....

Ironically they learn from us not the other way around even though they grab the higher ground for appearances and to try and gain authority. IMO it's their defence mechanism.

Trip, I have been happy to find this forum too. For me it has been more beneficial than most of the therapists I have seen.

One could be forgiven thinking that this forum is littered with crazy people kicked out by therapists. Absolutely the opposite. Posters on here are sane, stable and intelligent and of course they are extremely helpful because they all experienced the same issues with therapists we have.

Therapists, believe me, they are the crazy ones.

Good luck on your journey.

Therapists are The/rapists of our minds.

Welcome ifyouknowmenoyoudont. I haven't been here very long, but already I have found it hugely helpful with my healing. It appears to me the further we are away from therapists the better we become. This gives us confidence in our inner resources. Good wishes.

On 5/25/2021 at 6:52 AM, HelloUniverse000 said:

Thank you both! Heh--my friends who are NOT in the helping profession were the ones who helped me the most. Friends who are therapists are like anyone else: Flawed humans who misread you. 
 

What I am struggling with now is when some people justify a therapists' abuse (liking thinking that they had a valid reason to do what they're doing). If something causes harm, I don't see why that is excused. 

This is the problem. If they do harm, which they often do they do not take any responsibility. Doing so would conflict with their 'perfect appearance' they like to project. Those who still like therapists after they have harmed a client are sucked into and believe this 'perfect appearance' bs. Therapists are quite often completely wrong.

1 hour ago, Mary S said:

I'm so glad you found a new therapist who made sense for you. I initially tried at least three therapists who were more counterproductive than helpful. Over the period of a several years, I tried some more -- I did eventually find one who I think might  have helped me if he had been the first (or even second or third) I tried. But after the three bad experiences, I was pretty hard to help. Over the years, I kept trying a new therapist every year or two or three. There were a couple more who might have been able to help me if they had been the first -- but the cumulative experience of three counterproductive therapists in a row really made it hard for me to articulate things and to trust a new therapist. Fortunately, I survived, but still have the intrusive thoughts of therapists behaving intrusively.  I found them very difficult to communicate with; we so often seemed off in different worlds. It's not like I'm a totally isolated person-- I worked with a lot of different types of people in my job, and with rare exceptions got along well with them (and usually the rare exceptions were people that other people had difficulty with as well). But therapists just seemed like they were from a different culture, with values that were so different from mine.

I don't think we can win with a therapist. If we get on well they get terrified they will get struck off and if we don't get on it ain't gonna work. I personally find it completely unnatural to be in a room every week for months, to talk about our innermost feelings, and not to get close, attached. I think that is healthy and normal. Hurt by therapy was completely right and normal to say she was like a friend. In my job as a support worker we have a term called 'professional friendship' which I like, but I have made personal friendships. Even with that I still did my job professionally. Therapists have too many hang ups and these hang ups are what disturbs the clients.

5 hours ago, Eve B said:

If you stopped trusting, how were you able to convince yourself to risk trying a different therapist?

I was between a rock and a hard place. I wanted to get better but was really concerned about getting discarded again. I didn't know what other type of treatment to have. The major point of my concern was if I told the new therapist about my last therapist that she would be on her side and I would be distraught. That's why it took me a year to go to another one. A year when my depression came back. Eventually I didn't have a choice and I took the plunge. Luckily she agreed with me phew! This highlights the problem that clients badly hurt by therapy have simply nowhere to go (apart from here) whilst therapists have their Supervisor to support them. A crazy situation.

2 hours ago, HelloUniverse000 said:

 
 

I agree that every therapist that I have met had their own issues. If they're not taking care of their own stuff (like seeing their own therapist or self-reflecting), those issues can spill into their work with clients. We clients notice things about therapists too: like when they're contradicting themselves (saying one thing during the last session and then something totally different in the next session), not remembering important things, making judgmental faces, and having incongruent body language with what they say.  Being friends with therapists did help me look at them in a more realistic way too. 
 

My non-therapist friends helped me more bc they had these things : 1) Common sense 2) A practical approach to solving problems 3) Were grounded consistent and stable (at least to me).  I didn't find those things in some of the therapists in my life. Given my complex trauma, I was craving security and common sense in someone......
 

 

Those three points are for me the definition of good mental health and a stable mind. We had all three before we became disturbed, generally by someone else's irrational behaviour in real life. We still had some common sense left though and sought help from someone who advertised they could help us with our situation. Unfortunately the therapists often don't possess any of those three points and disturb us further until we get to the point where we say 'Shes mad I'm ok' is that how it's supposed to work? A kind of reverse psychology?? 

58 minutes ago, Hurt By Therapy said:

That's well put. You've seen in my story that I was devastated, but the more I learned about bad therapists and therapy in general, I began to heal when I realized it wasn't my fault, my therapist failed me.
There's still some hurt obviously, but I've come a long way.

 

Can you imagine a hospital throwing someone out with a broken leg? That's what it was like for me and I guess I'm by far not the only one. They operate in flight not fight mode. The worst part being that they take no responsibility for their actions. They even have the arrogance to hide under the word 'professionalism' when many of them are dangerous amateurs. My therapist did help me a lot for nine months then she suddenly changed, withdrew her support and discarded me like a bit of rubbish. I returned to depression for another year until I found a therapist who said her actions were wrong. By this time though I didn't trust anyone. 

On 5/25/2021 at 2:13 AM, HelloUniverse000 said:

Hello everyone!

Glad I found this forum. There's not a lot out there to help with this. I get intrusive thoughts over harmful things that professionals have done. 
 

I am wondering if anyone has also had the unique experience of being friends with therapists in their personal lives. I have seen bad therapists for professional help, but I also befriended my coworkers (who were therapists). Some of those friendships did turn out to be toxic. 
 

Looking forward to posting. 

Hi HelloUniverse000,  A really good friend became a therapist and I also worked for a therapist. I like to think that most therapists do it for the right reasons, but I haven't met one who didn't have issues. In fact I  think although they do it to help others they are also searching for their own answers. We seek wisdom from them but sadly most of them don't possess it. I believe that is why their training is rigid and narrow. If it wasn't their emotional immaturity/ arrested development will shine through. I certainly saw that with both the therapists I knew personally. I was lucky to have that insight and it helped me to view the therapists I saw professionally in a more realistic way. I have definitely received more wisdom and stability from friends who weren't therapists, those people who have suffered too and not read a book. Looking back because I have finished therapy now I think therapy has helped me because I was desperate to offload in a weekly way which I couldn't do with friends, but I would advise anyone going into therapy that they (the ones I saw anyway)are not reliable or passionate about what they do. It's a real tricky one. We need to be vulnerable, but not defenceless.

7 hours ago, Mary S said:

One of my worst therapists once said that I needed to dress more "nicely". That certainly conflicted with the idea that I should be myself, and not conform just for the sake of conforming.

A male friend of mine went to see a therapist and one day after a few sessions complimented her on her appearance. She asked him if he secretly liked dressing in women's clothes. 

10 hours ago, disequilibrium1 said:

Aside from a few obvious characteristics, the "experts" don't know why some find mates where others don't. My therapist sent me for a "beauty makeover." She also told me to wear earrings to focus attention on my eyes and long necklaces that focus attention to my chest. Seriously.

 

My first reaction was to laugh, but this stuff is seriously worrying. If we were seeing someone at the end of the pier on a fun day out at the seaside we would be light-hearted about it, but these are supposed to be highly trained professionals. I do wonder how many families, relationships they have destroyed and how many clients have taken their own lives because of them.

On 5/26/2021 at 10:25 PM, Eve B said:

I think regardless of how they were trained, the mistakes that therapists make are hard to correct because it's behind closed doors with no third party supervision or other witnesses. Also, therapists often don't want to seriously believe a client's criticisms because clients are the ones with the issues coming to them for the help. Therapists play the "expert" role that they think is expected of them, so they usually won't admit that they and/or their treatment could be in the wrong.        

This is so true. It's like they have set themselves up on a pedestal of knowing all the answers, but they don't know what life experiences the person opposite them has had. They think three years studying from a book gives them more knowledge than fifty years life experience. So when they get challenged they feel threatened instead of being open and considering different ideas. So they become defensive because in their lofty position of a few years training they know all the answers.  The client is there for personal growth, but the therapist isn't and if the challenge continues they either say we are crazy or they throw us out or both. Often the reason we started therapy was because we have experienced neglect, abandonment and rejection and now they have just repeated it. Great!

When we want stability they give us fantasy, walk away and leave it with us. Then they blame us for its consequences, so irresponsible.

Thank you zygomaticus. It's been amazing so far the opposite of bad therapy. I can feel the guilt flowing from me. How exciting!