Terrifying podcast: The Shrink Next Door

[Eve B]

“A therapist said on Twitter recently that therapy isn’t a friendship between the therapist and the patient. It is a professional arrangement designed to help the patient,” Nocera says. “People who go to therapy need to keep that in mind…Anything that happens beyond the four walls of the therapist’s office should make you question whether you are with the right therapist. It is a relationship like few others.” (quoted from that Rolling Stone article link)

Aren't emails and text messaging an accepted part of therapy communication nowadays? I think therapy strictly confined to scheduled appointments in the session room just doesn't cut it anymore. The relationship itself is already abnormal from the start, and there are greater grey areas that need to be considered when working with the individual issues of each client.

[disequilibrium1]

I wouldn't have dreamed of therapy outside office confines. From my reading, 24/7 communications channels cause innumerable angst for both clients and therapists. From my outsider viewpoint, these channels bring the therapist out from the consulting room and into the client's life. 

[Mary S]

5 hours ago, disequilibrium1 said:

I wouldn't have dreamed of therapy outside office confines. From my reading, 24/7 communications channels cause innumerable angst for both clients and therapists. From my outsider viewpoint, these channels bring the therapist out from the consulting room and into the client's life. 

My experience was that even therapy within office confines created a "therapist-in-my-mind" that interfered with my normal life. Getting rid of that "therapist-in-my-mind" has been very difficult; I"m not entirely rid of it yet.

[disequilibrium1]

2 hours ago, Mary S said:

My experience was that even therapy within office confines created a "therapist-in-my-mind" that interfered with my normal life. Getting rid of that "therapist-in-my-mind" has been very difficult; I"m not entirely rid of it yet.

Likewise, Mary. The authoritarianism, condescension and contempt live with me.

[Eve B]

Yeah, something about therapists sticks in the head even after leaving the session room.  It's just not a normal relationship whether it remains in the office or extends out to the client's real world life. Some clients want and need that extra contact, but I think there's usually some greater motive for therapists if they decide to give that kind of special treatment.

[Mary S]

20 minutes ago, Eve B said:

....  It's just not a normal relationship whether it remains in the office or extends out to the client's real world life. ...

Amen!

So why in heaven's name do they believe that it will help the client in their real world life?? It's like a religious belief. Maybe if the client shares in the belief it might be helpful. But if it doesn't make sense to the client, it's not likely to be helpful.

[Mary S]

Just for the heck of it, I did a web search on "therapy like religion" and came up with this: https://qz.com/796630/millennials-are-finding-spirituality-on-the-therapists-couch-instead-of-the-church-pew/. It's somewhat interesting, but doesn't fit my therapy experience. First, I'm not a millennial. Second, I'd already worked through the "church doesn't fit my needs" thing long before trying therapy. Third, I went to therapy initially to work on specific problems (but that never happened). 

Then there's this quote: "Pushing back against your own beliefs or those of the therapist is not only allowed, but encouraged. The freedom to think critically and be honest about major doubts has been transformative for me."  Wow! In my therapy, things like pushing back against the therapist's beliefs, thinking critically, and being honest about major doubts  brought a lot of criticism (typically of the "lashing out" rather than respectful variety) from the therapist.

[Mary S]

Also some interesting (and some disturbing) discussion here .

[Mary S]

Also: I think one of the better therapists I had was religious.  I know someone who had him as a therapist and decided to adopt his religion. But he never did anything that explicitly brought up religion in my experience with him. He was just a very nice, kind person who treated his clients with respect -- whereas most therapists I have tried were noticeably weak in the treating-others-respectfully department.

[disequilibrium1]

I do think some percentage of the client population treats therapy as religion, the therapist as their priest, the relationship as authoritative structure and the process itself like sacred purification.
I envy people who can  serenity, respite, guidance and community at a house of worship. I tried, but it never worked for me. Hearing from those who needed to leave their faith, force conformity, censure and authoritarianism were often the problem. An ideal has to be interpreted by people, and people inevitably have hierarchy insecurity and power needs.

Edited June 17, 2019 by disequilibrium1

[disequilibrium1]

Without naming him, One of the psychiatrist's parties is described by author Shalom Auslander in 2006.
His other writings reveal his provider is or was the notorious Dr. Ike.
The podcast author also reported on Twitter last week that the psychiatrist resigned from the NYU faculty.
https://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/26/magazine/26funny_humor.html?fbclid=IwAR0kxrzSRzdrIGe9670_lDf6AFftQVy2HosXC0Oxxw9SQAVHoKOiNWXBeT4

 

[Mary S]

Weird, really weird.

[Eve B]

On 6/16/2019 at 3:35 PM, Mary S said:

So why in heaven's name do they believe that it will help the client in their real world life?? 

Logically, it doesn't make sense to simulate a close relationship in the session room if it's unlike anything in the real world. Maybe a therapist's connection is like a feel-good (or feel-bad) pill that can influence how clients respond to others in their real world life? When I was emotionally traumatized by my first therapist, it also negatively affected my interactions with everyone else. I became more irritable and distrusting even to friends and family. I already had anger issues, and the bad therapy only made it worse. I'm assuming, then, that having the support of a competent therapist could give clients a boost of self-esteem and validation that, in turn, would help them see things more positively in their real world life? Does a relationship need to be "normal" to be helpful?

[Eve B]

On 6/17/2019 at 2:25 PM, disequilibrium1 said:

Without naming him, One of the psychiatrist's parties is described by author Shalom Auslander in 2006.
His other writings reveal his provider is or was the notorious Dr. Ike.
The podcast author also reported on Twitter last week that the psychiatrist resigned from the NYU faculty.
https://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/26/magazine/26funny_humor.html?fbclid=IwAR0kxrzSRzdrIGe9670_lDf6AFftQVy2HosXC0Oxxw9SQAVHoKOiNWXBeT4
 

"Long periods of high-priced silence were interrupted by brief periods of high-priced inanity..."  

Been there, done that!  

[Eve B]

On 6/16/2019 at 3:49 PM, Mary S said:

Just for the heck of it, I did a web search on "therapy like religion" and came up with this: https://qz.com/796630/millennials-are-finding-spirituality-on-the-therapists-couch-instead-of-the-church-pew/. 

I agree with the article that trying therapy "is an act  of faith." When that trust is betrayed, it's never forgotten.

[Mary S]

6 hours ago, Eve B said:

... Maybe a therapist's connection is like a feel-good (or feel-bad) pill that can influence how clients respond to others in their real world life? When I was emotionally traumatized by my first therapist, it also negatively affected my interactions with everyone else. I became more irritable and distrusting even to friends and family. I already had anger issues, and the bad therapy only made it worse. I'm assuming, then, that having the support of a competent therapist could give clients a boost of self-esteem and validation that, in turn, would help them see things more positively in their real world life? Does a relationship need to be "normal" to be helpful?

Interactions with therapist can definitely affect interactions and other things outside of therapy. Therapy (in my experience) is pretty abnormal, freaky. Being subjected to crazy stuff once a week makes it harder to function the rest of the week (especially when you have intrusive thoughts of the therapist interaction, which make it hard to focus on everyday things.) Therapy hinders being able to cope with normal stresses and demands ; but I thought it was supposed to be something that helped you cope -- why would I have tried it if I didn't expect that?

[disequilibrium1]

Two new articles have emerged around The Shrink Next Door, a new one...
'The Shrink Next Door': New revelations about the Jewiest, screwiest podcast ever - Jewish Telegraphic Agency

...and this one from 2006 which corroborates and important aspect of the podcast's assertions:
Celebrity Crazy - The New York Times

Though the psychiatrist isn't named, author Auslander does so in other writing.

[disequilibrium1]

Pardon the redundancy. I didn't beat the clock to edit my post. I tried to write:

Another article  has emerged around The Shrink Next Door:
'The Shrink Next Door': New revelations about the Jewiest, screwiest podcast ever - Jewish Telegraphic Agency

There now is an "Update"  podcast with a grab bag of topics include an interview with TELL's Jan Wohlberg on psychiatric abuse in general.  She mentions seeing many cases where the therapist "took over the life" of a patient. She says she's seen therapists use patients for tax returns, legal advice and baby sitting. She talks about how (both sexual and non-sexual) grooming and isolation going hand in hand. The topic begins   22:36 in the update episode below.

Wondery - Feel The Story >> The Shrink Next Door

The Update also says that after episode 6 Marty finally was contacted by a lawyer from the New York Department of Health. 

[Mary S]

The JTA article is really depressing. So sad that people do these things to other people. ( I couldn't figure out how to get anything from the second link).

[disequilibrium1]

Mary, is the difficulty the Wondery link or The NY Times?

If the Wondery link, scroll down until you see the Update podcast. 

The NYtimes article “Celebrity Crazy,” NY Times, Nov 26,  2006, by Shalom Auslander, describes the author taking a party bus to his psychiatrist’s Hamptons house, the pool and band, the walls of celebrity photos as well as the author’s flustered feeling as an uninteresting patient. It corroborates parts of the podcast.

 

[Mary S]

17 hours ago, disequilibrium1 said:

Mary, is the difficulty the Wondery link or The NY Times?

If the Wondery link, scroll down until you see the Update podcast.

It was the Wondery link. I was expecting something like the earlier New York Times link, where I could click on a transcript of the podcast rather than just listen to the podcast. Today I tried going back to the NYTimes link that has the transcripts of the original podcasts, but it didn't have a link to the Update that was on the Wondery site. So I did listen to the oral podcast (although I had difficulty figuring out how to turn down the volume, so listened to most of it while standing  out in the hallway so it wasn't  so loud).

Anyhow, thanks for the link to the update. The part by Jan Wohlberg was good -- discussing "grooming". I think that is important to disseminate, but I think there also needs to be more about  other ways a therapist can sabotage the client's experience. The only thing that I experienced in my therapy experience that fit the "grooming" model was with my second-worst therapist. I asked if I could bring my partner to a session. She said no; she would only see him separately (and my insurance would cover it),  but she would not see us together until she and I had a "suitable relationship" (not sure if I've got the exact phrase she used). The experience was pretty shocking to me, because she answered questions he asked that she had not answered when I asked them. So it was in some sense like the idea in the podcast of serving to separate  the client from sources of support. But it also fit into a more general pattern of belittling me and my concerns -- for example, laughing at me rather than discussing what I thought were important issues.

[disequilibrium1]

My therapists’ misjudgments were confined to the consulting room. However they happily colluded in their disproportionate sway over my life and decisions. Their “grooming,” as it were, was faking an omniscience no human can possess. So though they didn’t move into my house or have me do their typing, I was victim to their mystification on a more limited scale. I still feel snookered.

I wish the “profession” would explore both for colleagues and the public the major and minor  issues this podcast raises.

[Eve B]

On 6/18/2019 at 10:42 PM, Mary S said:

Therapy hinders being able to cope with normal stresses and demands ; but I thought it was supposed to be something that helped you cope -- why would I have tried it if I didn't expect that?

When professionals are paid to perform a service, customers expect good results, but with therapy, there's no guarantee or refund if it doesn't work out. It's double jeopardy--mentally and financially-- but what client wouldn't hope that they'll be helped going into it, even if there's a disclaimer on the consent form? People would need to experience bad therapy for themselves to understand the damage it can leave behind. Therapy is usually a last resort, not a first choice. I think the failure rate of therapy is higher than the positive outcomes, but accurate statistics can't be publicized because the therapy process is also confidential.

[Eve B]

1 hour ago, disequilibrium1 said:

I wish the “profession” would explore both for colleagues and the public the major and minor  issues this podcast raises.

I think therapists would just say that it's a rare incident, so it's not worth talking about.

[disequilibrium1]

1 hour ago, Eve B said:

I think therapists would just say that it's a rare incident, so it's not worth talking about.

Eve you’re probably right. However though this particular exploitation is extreme, I’d wager idolization and a therapist’s over-control are pretty common. Though I wonder how many practitioners would see the connection.